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Grateful Dead 10/11/83
Madison Square Garden, New York, NY
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Source # 14525 Other Sources
Entered by dr.unclear
Checksums shn-md5 , st5
Disc Counts 2 / 3
Media Size
Date Circulated
Date Added
Source Summary Sbd > Cassette Master > Dat x 2 > CDR > SHN; plus AUD patches from Jeff Silberman Senn source (see info file); to gdlive via Bob Harrell Note: This is exactly the same seed as the one seeded to etree with the same lineage, but it has noise reduction applied and was seeded to gdlive. ; upgrade in circulation  
Source Information - Download Text | Download Zip
Grateful Dead
Madison Square Garden
New York, NY.
October 11, 1983

Lineage: SBD > Cassette Master > Dat x 2 > CDR > SHN

Disc 1                        51:07.11          
                -Set 1-

01. Wang Dang Doodle
02. Jack Straw
03. Loser
04. Me and My Uncle ->
05. Mexicali Blues
06. Bird Song
07. Hell in a Bucket->
08. Keep Your Day Job

Disc 2                        50:06.38
                -Set 2-

01. China Cat Sunflower ->
02. I Know You Rider
03. I Need a Miracle ->
04. Bertha ->
05. Jam ->
06. China Doll ->
07. Drums ->

Disc 3                        38:46.45
             -Set 2 Cont.-      

01. Space ->
02. Saint Stephen ->
03. Throwing Stones ->
04. Touch of Grey
05. Johnny B. Goode

- These discs made avaliable to gdlive are identicle in terms of tracking and editing as those seeded on etree but these do have minimal noise reduction.  These are the copies I listen to. I believe there is nothing wrong with NR and many of the folks downloading from gdlive don't have the capablities and or time to perform such procedures.  So if you are worried about a good listen get these.  If you are worried about collectiblity or want to do your own NR and or GE get the etree version. I made several splices to patch cassette flips using the etree audience version of this show and used many different technics to make these splices as transparent as possible.  All editing was done using Cool Edit Pro.  Patches are found on the following tracks:
- patch: d2t01   0:00.00 ->  0:12.20      
- patch: d2t06   3:53.19 ->  4:29.22
- patch: d3t04   2:42.23 ->  4:33.06
- I would like to thank my friend Bob for getting me the etree discs to make the patches and thank Jay Silberman for taking the time to record these wonderful audience tapes. Any questions or commennts feel free to contact me at [email protected]

    length     expanded size    cdr  WAVE problems  fmt   ratio  filename
     7:49.27       82795148 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.6760  gd83-10-11d1t01.shn
     5:36.40       59364524 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.6846  gd83-10-11d1t02.shn
     7:23.01       78147596 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.6579  gd83-10-11d1t03.shn
     3:16.29       34642652 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.6814  gd83-10-11d1t04.shn
     4:55.30       52108604 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.6685  gd83-10-11d1t05.shn
    11:42.10      123856364 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.6507  gd83-10-11d1t06.shn
     5:44.12       60709868 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7163  gd83-10-11d1t07.shn
     4:40.06       49406156 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7304  gd83-10-11d1t08.shn
     6:12.21       65670236 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7735  gd83-10-11d2t01.shn
     8:28.00       89611244 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7541  gd83-10-11d2t02.shn
     4:52.57       51642908 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7612  gd83-10-11d2t03.shn
     6:10.08       65286860 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7681  gd83-10-11d2t04.shn
     3:18.22       34978988 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7227  gd83-10-11d2t05.shn
     8:35.38       90935420 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7419  gd83-10-11d2t06.shn
    12:39.38      133977020 B   ---   --   ---xx    shn  0.7064  gd83-10-11d2t07.shn
    11:15.40      119164544 B   -b-   --   ---xx    shn  0.5956  gd83-10-11d3t01.shn
     7:02.56       74571632 B   -b-   --   ---xx    shn  0.7349  gd83-10-11d3t02.shn
     9:22.47       99246464 B   -b-   --   ---xx    shn  0.7223  gd83-10-11d3t03.shn
     6:44.35       71348048 B   -b-   --   ---xx    shn  0.7479  gd83-10-11d3t04.shn
     4:21.21       46090088 B   -b-   --   ---xx    shn  0.7296  gd83-10-11d3t05.shn
   140:10.13     1483554364 B                            0.7053  (20 files)

No errors occured.
Show Checksums
86ce503d9b1b8f55339c56e27b0c12f6 *gd83-10-11d1t01.shn
40b5886759a0570dcb43742ad9e32aab *gd83-10-11d1t02.shn
53fd38fdb6530b2d8ba5a2468ac7a9b4 *gd83-10-11d1t03.shn
4ac20f6d825b662413e3ffc3f65755d4 *gd83-10-11d1t04.shn
285e8dfc4dd0512f146db1689f54780c *gd83-10-11d1t05.shn
9ea9ed22faafe55bdb91a9dffc6f0d69 *gd83-10-11d1t06.shn
1589b43cf1b68eb811eee0017873cf6b *gd83-10-11d1t07.shn
0022e2a9e69110faf43049193aa51b2d *gd83-10-11d1t08.shn
d595f45106e998d310fa60ff916ffabd *gd83-10-11d2t01.shn
5ddd601ef7e2a811ef02b0199a4be409 *gd83-10-11d2t02.shn
71360c8f8814b28fb1a04c00841c885e *gd83-10-11d2t03.shn
8a6b76f426dc67c3e142ddeb00c45f9f *gd83-10-11d2t04.shn
6d763dbf9ad7bb77d0b3c6455f48fae3 *gd83-10-11d2t05.shn
798a2fecf2a0b774bf5a222961d91988 *gd83-10-11d2t06.shn
b287a61fc8e193052bf40f93ed63df50 *gd83-10-11d2t07.shn
52ee97b18c7c8c8915e37e40573ae02a *gd83-10-11d3t01.shn
76bad2dc506b799a4536e5382b03df46 *gd83-10-11d3t02.shn
55b7506657c0cfee34a547c8345769a2 *gd83-10-11d3t03.shn
91f3713895bb1deeb720612a6fd02053 *gd83-10-11d3t04.shn
677705155e54a2007959099f1823c1c4 *gd83-10-11d3t05.shn
3de4b4cd43e950bc88612e95d4188662 [shntool] gd83-10-11d1t01.shn
b9dec1b8d2b152356cf4ae934949a1f2 [shntool] gd83-10-11d1t02.shn
987ed396bd835b533eefb72430ff4273 [shntool] gd83-10-11d1t03.shn
706e61c3cc53a1ebfc52704a74c9b67b [shntool] gd83-10-11d1t04.shn
a990c1c5913ac97ca8d5525c69860274 [shntool] gd83-10-11d1t05.shn
ccab6fb7729553726fa03f4b2dc7f02a [shntool] gd83-10-11d1t06.shn
294da811fa1e9e4138e2a7bd96651556 [shntool] gd83-10-11d1t07.shn
f200ce04b27c6abe21c368e11b19107d [shntool] gd83-10-11d1t08.shn
e04d731dee5e126330d2aed22ba0e2f4 [shntool] gd83-10-11d2t01.shn
3b2726a0151e95055a1d6d1e75938595 [shntool] gd83-10-11d2t02.shn
331cd56ed1a1019e4b1747bcfd160c3e [shntool] gd83-10-11d2t03.shn
0a62156516b168ad853ae12038c63564 [shntool] gd83-10-11d2t04.shn
697dbe67b7d92b10f6fae3409f27e4d7 [shntool] gd83-10-11d2t05.shn
e4d1e366d152211cb6ecf86f1ea23bd0 [shntool] gd83-10-11d2t06.shn
8902e129fd858c4f197620203b17d711 [shntool] gd83-10-11d2t07.shn
a62ad72e50c181815faaa780f2d79955 [shntool] gd83-10-11d3t01.shn
6a48289a6800bd9fd7ca8017b27b58b5 [shntool] gd83-10-11d3t02.shn
3e178bb133086b20b11cfdf156eb0491 [shntool] gd83-10-11d3t03.shn
77d0b276b129953f50ec8ac6836815a2 [shntool] gd83-10-11d3t04.shn
26322f6f0e3321a0b89818700e860312 [shntool] gd83-10-11d3t05.shn

Add Comment
Other Sources (comments)
FOB Sennheiser 441's >... (0) Sbd > Cassette Master > Dat... (0) Peter Braverman 'fix' of... (3) noise-reduced and Bertha... (3) Recording Info: Beyer M160... (0) flac16; Recording... (0) flac16; Lineage:... (2) flac16; Lineage:... (0) flac16; Beyerdynamic... (0) flac16; source:... (0) flac16; 2 source... (0) flac24; Updated... (0) flac16; 2 Source... (0) flac16; Master... (0) flac24; Master... (0) flac24; Updated... (2) flac16; Updated... (2) flac16/48kHz; Jim... (0) flac24; Jim Wise's... (0)
Date User Comment
01/15/2003 Willy Is there any more info available as to who did the processing? Tx, Willy
01/16/2003 Ben Neuman If you read the comments on the similar pair of 10.15.83, you'll see that Bob Harrell seeded both the non-NR copy to Etree and his own, personally NRed copy to GDLive. The situation appears to be the same here.
05/08/2004 jay ashley Unfortunately, this source was found to have some type of compression scheme applied. I am not sure which of the lossy formats was used, but the compression can be clearly seen in frequency analysis. I have not tested the source used to produce this version, but will do so once I can get ahold of a copy.
05/08/2004 jay ashley I have tested both noise reduction and compression extensively. Noise reduction can be seen at the high end as scalloping or slight dropoff. Compression such as mp3 is very different. I will be happy to show anyone interested how to detect it.
I can be contacted at: [email protected]

This is a compressed source and I stand by my analysis.

05/10/2004 Jay, can you please explain how you've come to the conclusion that this seed is from a lossy compressed source?
05/10/2004 Alex Frequency analysis. A diagram of the frequency shows if the audio file is compressed or lossless. It can easily be seen as the upper regions of the frequency is totally black on MP3-files, meaning loss in quality, while lossless audio files have the peaks going all the way up. It?s not too easy to explain, I think Jay can do it better, and it?s much easier with actual screenshots. It can be done using the Tools in EAC and i?m using it regularly to check on sources from SharingTheGroove, for instance. The difference between compressed and un-compressed are very easy to detect.
05/20/2004 jay ashley I finally got to look at the source this source was said to be made from. Though the frequency analysis has many points that are similar to Mini Disc compression, I just don't think there are enough to conclude the original source has MD in the lineage.

Therefore, I am reversing my original conclusion. I believe the original source, and thus, this source, DO NOT have compression in the lineage.

I believe the anomolies are due to the upper limit of the cassette deck used for transferring. Coincidentally, that limit is around 18khz, which is the same frequency where the MD signature appears.

Keep in mind, this is not an exact science, however, through testing and comparing known souces it becomes easier to detect sources that are not what they are purported to be. And, there are a whole lot of those circulating.

05/20/2004 jay ashley In response to Alex. Yes, the high frequency range is where compression is detected. There are many types of compression, however. Mini Disc is not so straight forward to detect as mp3. And, some mp4 files are nearly impossible to detect. I first look at the signature as the track is playing. This gives a good overall picture, ie, cassette, pcm, compression. Then, if there are anomolies, I will look at individual points on the frequency analyzer, moving through the entire wav file to see if the anomoly is consistant. Between frequency analysis and spectral analysis, everything from FM to Noise Reduction to Compression can be detected.

12/21/2004 Diana Discursive chitchat/flamebait now pruned.