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Grateful Dead 09/25/81
Stabler Arena, Lehigh U, Bethlehem, PA
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Source # 2215 Other Sources
Entered by dr.unclear
Checksums shn-md5 , st5
Disc Counts 0 / 3
Media Size
Date Circulated
Date Added
Source Summary Master Soundboard Cassette > Cassette > CDR, with AUD patches from Sennheiser 441 and Nakamichi CM300's + CP4's; via Scott Clugston; see extensive notes in info file ; upgrade in circulation 
Source Information - Download Text | Download Zip
Stabler Arena
Lehigh University
Bethlehem, PA

Master Soundboard Cassette > Cassette > CDR

Master Audience Cassette > Sennheiser 441 mics

Master Audience Cassette > Nakamichi CM300's + CP4's

There are mix problems thru the 1st half of "Minglewood Blues" (disc 1 track1). The Soundboard cuts at the 6:54 mark of "The Music Never Stopped" (disc1 track 9), the Sennheiser 441 audience source is used to provide the final 1:30 of "The Music Never Stopped" as well as Bob's set break announcement.The Soundboard cuts at the 4:35 mark of "Fire on the Mountain" (disc 2 track 6), the Nakamichi CM300's + CP4's audience source provides balance of that track from the 4:35 mark thru the 10:13 mark. During the Drumns/Space sequence, the quality of the Soundboard quickly deteriorates to the point of being unlistenable. Therefore, the balance of the show,disc 3 in its entirety, is provided via the Nakamichi CM300's + CP4's source (which I find _very_ enjoyable).

As an attendee of this show, I can attest to the security force's zeal when dealing with the taping community on this night, hence the multiple audience sources used for patching. The taper with the Nakamichi CM300's was evidently "busted" towards the end of the 1st set and missed "The Music Never Stopped" set closer entirely, necessitating the use of Sennheiser 441 audience source.

This is a personal favorite of mine and while this copy is not "just exactly perfect",I don't believe you'll find a higher quality, or more complete copy, anywhere.

Made possible by the usual group of suspects/mental patients

Patching/CD Mastering by Scott Clugston
Shn'ed by Scott Clugston
Circulated 10/29/00  

   Disc 1
   1st Set
1. Minglewood Blues
3. El Paso
4. Peggy O
5. Red Rooster
6. Birdsong>
8. Cumberland Blues
9. Passenger

   Disc 2
1. Althea
2. The Music Never Stopped//
   2nd Set
3. Might As Well>
4. Samson
5. Scarlet Begonias>
6. Fire on //the Mountain
7. Good Times Blues
8. Lost Sailor>
9. Saint of Circumstance>

   Disc 3
1. Space>
2. The Wheel>
3. Sugar Magnolia>
4. Black Peter>
5. A & A>
6. Sunshine Daydream
7. US Blues
Show Checksums
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61c0904da3d0dda08db5d4f667a15cf1 [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t01.shn
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Other Sources (comments)
Source: MAC>DAT>CDR... (3) Recording by Steve Rolfe.... (0) flac16; Recording... (0) flac16; Source info:... (1) flac16; Source Info:... (0) flac24; Source Info:... (0)
Date User Comment
06/23/2001 wik The Minglewood at the opening of the show is also monumental, on my AUD copy anyway. Bobby's microphone is initially switched off, prompting a 4-minute jam from Jerry & co., until Bobby sort of triumphantly enters the fray (crowd goes wild). Later the band hits on a tumbling, excellent jam. Best-ever Minglewood that I know of.
12/18/2004 Wik Uh... this seed has an Mp3 generation. It's painfully obvious. Beware.
12/19/2004 brewster How exactly is that obvious? Please explain.
12/21/2004 Diana Another fileset has some discussion in pub comments (which I may later prune the heat out of, BTW). Briefly and in general, one can look at the frequency range in an .wav editing program. Also in general, the filesize may be an indicator- it would be much smaller than "typical" lossless size for a comparable length of the music.

Wik, which method(s) did you use to lead you to conclude an mp3 gen here?
12/22/2004 wik Hi Diana, my method is a pair of good headphones. The hiss present on D2T01 contains warbling that is classic MP3 (subjectively). It sounds like 128k joint stereo with a very poor encoder... very swimmy in a digital sense. A mere cass gen would not do this! I know MP3 when I hear it.

The AUD of D3 is harder to pin down, but seems to also be MP3 but with less severe effects... probably because that source has less hiss. Still not a solid soundstage, and digital gremlins of the MP3 variety are audible in the cymbals. It also appears to have had severe NR before the MP3.

It is possible I got a corrupted copy... although it was full size SHN downloaded from FurtherNet. If anybody else has comments, pls add them.

BTW, my 2001 comments were about the show in general; this seemed like an ok place to blab at the time. Cheers.
12/23/2004 Diana Wik wrote, It is possible I got a corrupted copy... although it was full size SHN downloaded from FurtherNet.

A "corrupted" copy? Er, does your fileset match/pass the md5s for the Clugston fileset of this actual entry? Perhaps you have some kind or "rip" of this- if so, the checksums on yours will not match.

I'll say I am highly skeptical, given his established record, that Scott and his colleagues would have been working with mp3-sourced material for this actual seed.
12/23/2004 Diana On a side note, in the cass days we had plenty of "warbly" cassettes in our collection, a few of those even low gen. :/
12/23/2004 brewster I find it very unlikely that listening with headphones could define MP3. Comparing lossy and lossless sources - yes. The best way though is through spectrum analysis of the WAVs. I too do not beleive Scott would seed something suspicious. Judging just from listening gives too many other issues to account for - white noise, transfer issues, etc etc etc. No way I say.
12/23/2004 Charlie Miller Cool Edit Pro's frequency analysis will answer all of your
12/23/2004 Wik MD5s do match, so I have the real seed. I have posted the SHN for D2T1 for anyone to review at this location:

Hopefully we can get more opinions or facts about this SHN source, the only SBD in circ for 9-25-81.
12/24/2004 Deadhead After listening to the file linked above (which does match the MD5 here) I concur with Wik that there is some 'digital weirdness' here, its very obvious in the high frequencies. To my ears it sounds a lot like a poor application of digital noise reduction rather than an mp3 generation.
12/24/2004 Andy L. This seed most definitely does not have an MP3 in it. My friend Jeff Harrison was able to borrow the first gen. cassette and get it put to CDR. I was the one who sent it to Scott to be futher edited. BTW, there are a lot of problems w/ the SBD feed, and Scott opted for the AUD for the second half of Set II. I have that version from Scott, as well as the complete SBD (though it is no great shakes).
12/26/2004 wik Thanks Andy, however, it's the "no great shakes" aspect of the SBD that is of concern. Either we know the lineage or we do not. It seems this one should be SBD>?>cass>CDR. Or are we sure it came from the vault tape, i.e., was the source here spun by Dick himself?
12/27/2004 Charlie Miller Even though the sbd is flawed, it would still be nice to see the whole thing
12/27/2004 jb I don't see what the question here is. The SBD has a known lineage: MC > C > CD. The seeder knew the guy who had a 1st gen cassette with a verifiable source and got that cassette for the transfer. There should be no further debate on this. It is a 1st gen cassette (counting the master as "generation 0"), and there is no MP3 generation. The fact that the SBD tape doesn't sound all that great is irrelevent. A lot of 20+ year old tapes of early 80s shows don't sound all that great.
12/27/2004 Andy L. Wik, let me try again: MSC>1st gen. cassette given by Dick to D.T.>copied to CDR by Jeff Harrison>sent by me to Scott Clugston. I hope this helps, and I will see that the other copy gets uploaded.