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Grateful Dead 09/25/81
Stabler Arena, Lehigh U, Bethlehem, PA
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Source # 2215 Other Sources
Entered by dr.unclear
Checksums shn-md5 , st5
Disc Counts 0 / 3
Media Size
Date Circulated
Date Added
10/29/00
12/21/2000
Source Summary Master Soundboard Cassette > Cassette > CDR, with AUD patches from Sennheiser 441 and Nakamichi CM300's + CP4's; via Scott Clugston; see extensive notes in info file ; upgrade in circulation 
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Source Information - Download Text | Download Zip
9/25/81
Stabler Arena
Lehigh University
Bethlehem, PA

Sources:
Master Soundboard Cassette > Cassette > CDR

Master Audience Cassette > Sennheiser 441 mics

Master Audience Cassette > Nakamichi CM300's + CP4's

There are mix problems thru the 1st half of "Minglewood Blues" (disc 1 track1). The Soundboard cuts at the 6:54 mark of "The Music Never Stopped" (disc1 track 9), the Sennheiser 441 audience source is used to provide the final 1:30 of "The Music Never Stopped" as well as Bob's set break announcement.The Soundboard cuts at the 4:35 mark of "Fire on the Mountain" (disc 2 track 6), the Nakamichi CM300's + CP4's audience source provides balance of that track from the 4:35 mark thru the 10:13 mark. During the Drumns/Space sequence, the quality of the Soundboard quickly deteriorates to the point of being unlistenable. Therefore, the balance of the show,disc 3 in its entirety, is provided via the Nakamichi CM300's + CP4's source (which I find _very_ enjoyable).

As an attendee of this show, I can attest to the security force's zeal when dealing with the taping community on this night, hence the multiple audience sources used for patching. The taper with the Nakamichi CM300's was evidently "busted" towards the end of the 1st set and missed "The Music Never Stopped" set closer entirely, necessitating the use of Sennheiser 441 audience source.

This is a personal favorite of mine and while this copy is not "just exactly perfect",I don't believe you'll find a higher quality, or more complete copy, anywhere.

Made possible by the usual group of suspects/mental patients

Patching/CD Mastering by Scott Clugston
Shn'ed by Scott Clugston
Circulated 10/29/00  

   Disc 1
   1st Set
1. Minglewood Blues
2. FOTD
3. El Paso
4. Peggy O
5. Red Rooster
6. Birdsong>
7. BIODTL
8. Cumberland Blues
9. Passenger

   Disc 2
1. Althea
2. The Music Never Stopped//
   2nd Set
3. Might As Well>
4. Samson
5. Scarlet Begonias>
6. Fire on //the Mountain
7. Good Times Blues
8. Lost Sailor>
9. Saint of Circumstance>
10.Drums//>

   Disc 3
1. Space>
2. The Wheel>
3. Sugar Magnolia>
4. Black Peter>
5. A & A>
6. Sunshine Daydream
   Encore
7. US Blues
Show Checksums
shn-md5
ec3688e64da38af85b4280d244e69f73 *gd81-9-25d1t01.shn
4bfd7983fdac81babc221c4a771f1e48 *gd81-9-25d1t02.shn
d5d840e5966493f49e6a4ae8d14955f9 *gd81-9-25d1t03.shn
fc77f1a264c8c48e26179a50e31244ba *gd81-9-25d1t04.shn
db9a9617340e8f2ae0c9de3802e06adf *gd81-9-25d1t05.shn
039f17617ae776debde4636054104a90 *gd81-9-25d1t06.shn
9279abc7d4b0f931f4e0c5d102eaca2f *gd81-9-25d1t07.shn
90689991c25c6d9e3cdba69481128bcc *gd81-9-25d1t08.shn
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e2ee5ae18d0f41d0678c6b506a7a8122 *gd81-9-25d2t08.shn
8e694aa8dcb2e75d0b9f9416ff060204 *gd81-9-25d2t09.shn
8a749da3fcc7925b3f95c693f9c9e4e5 *gd81-9-25d2t10.shn
10064ea04f8b522bdb130efb723fad01 *gd81-9-25d3t01.shn
ba791e3d2018b8cea35af9fc0dbf1ee0 *gd81-9-25d3t02.shn
5c8ca865f19ac3d4d745e625c571969a *gd81-9-25d3t03.shn
9793ecb30a4bfd0d0653ed74479307c4 *gd81-9-25d3t04.shn
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88c001a31131c03bb7a9d5757bd31fbc *gd81-9-25d3t07.shn
st5
61c0904da3d0dda08db5d4f667a15cf1 [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t01.shn
2806a007d48a8f7c5187c8c574575bd5 [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t02.shn
70a3187d768707b04d2d0db59b654b90 [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t03.shn
e99d4b75fcec41eda409e8c81313ba3b [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t04.shn
79411d8ffcdc0c678e84403d4c6b5db6 [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t05.shn
2b0f12b155dcc2fec93c728f413f86f0 [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t06.shn
f9e531ce6a510b2d354e608382e62e62 [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t07.shn
e9a21d6ce82b9956fc51047fbe3d8ac3 [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t08.shn
9a7401d5c7c84800399e3048a067bbef [shntool] gd81-9-25d1t09.shn
d7503f5abd309700d8af738283e36cbf [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t01.shn
f998a171563de29276a90eaa2b4230e6 [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t02.shn
0646a5534ec1befee4b24e8ccd7c11a3 [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t03.shn
ba908b920fafb40493101679ea39bbab [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t04.shn
186a608b74d8eb8677737137d2a26647 [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t05.shn
3fa94f9e51a6f2bce78506ec7ea2866f [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t06.shn
de7ab8fcbd16f1c77cd2b385b1fd62d1 [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t07.shn
a2272ed0be4320b3b7646919c6579bfb [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t08.shn
e845d3bae5ea000856952d853d158cc4 [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t09.shn
a967de482afa43584ee3af27748825c7 [shntool] gd81-9-25d2t10.shn
2146dcae31f7bb5cebf148f0d758f5bd [shntool] gd81-9-25d3t01.shn
18b1795a4dc2e10429a631c98cc1f9a0 [shntool] gd81-9-25d3t02.shn
790e5ef908d6e46d59281c244e2c0a45 [shntool] gd81-9-25d3t03.shn
e800fac8936cc85fd382f0bd5f6f3f09 [shntool] gd81-9-25d3t04.shn
ac0d72c0565237992d2684adace2ba74 [shntool] gd81-9-25d3t05.shn
658423f1340614089ffbaca53517a18e [shntool] gd81-9-25d3t06.shn
ea9dbbfeb56f13e884b829da312a2170 [shntool] gd81-9-25d3t07.shn

Comments
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Other Sources (comments)
Source: MAC>DAT>CDR... (3) Recording by Steve Rolfe.... (0) flac16; Recording... (0) flac16; Source info:... (1) flac16; Source Info:... (0) flac24; Source Info:... (0)
Date User Comment
04/25/2001 David Perkins THIS IS A GREAT SHOW !! ONE OF IF NOT THE BEST PERFOMANCES OF THE MUSIC NEVER STOPPED.
06/23/2001 wik The Minglewood at the opening of the show is also monumental, on my AUD copy anyway. Bobby's microphone is initially switched off, prompting a 4-minute jam from Jerry & co., until Bobby sort of triumphantly enters the fray (crowd goes wild). Later the band hits on a tumbling, excellent jam. Best-ever Minglewood that I know of.
12/18/2004 Wik Uh... this seed has an Mp3 generation. It's painfully obvious. Beware.
12/19/2004 brewster How exactly is that obvious? Please explain.
12/21/2004 Diana Another fileset has some discussion in pub comments (which I may later prune the heat out of, BTW). Briefly and in general, one can look at the frequency range in an .wav editing program. Also in general, the filesize may be an indicator- it would be much smaller than "typical" lossless size for a comparable length of the music.

Wik, which method(s) did you use to lead you to conclude an mp3 gen here?
12/22/2004 wik Hi Diana, my method is a pair of good headphones. The hiss present on D2T01 contains warbling that is classic MP3 (subjectively). It sounds like 128k joint stereo with a very poor encoder... very swimmy in a digital sense. A mere cass gen would not do this! I know MP3 when I hear it.

The AUD of D3 is harder to pin down, but seems to also be MP3 but with less severe effects... probably because that source has less hiss. Still not a solid soundstage, and digital gremlins of the MP3 variety are audible in the cymbals. It also appears to have had severe NR before the MP3.

It is possible I got a corrupted copy... although it was full size SHN downloaded from FurtherNet. If anybody else has comments, pls add them.

BTW, my 2001 comments were about the show in general; this seemed like an ok place to blab at the time. Cheers.
12/23/2004 Diana Wik wrote, It is possible I got a corrupted copy... although it was full size SHN downloaded from FurtherNet.

A "corrupted" copy? Er, does your fileset match/pass the md5s for the Clugston fileset of this actual entry? Perhaps you have some kind or "rip" of this- if so, the checksums on yours will not match.

I'll say I am highly skeptical, given his established record, that Scott and his colleagues would have been working with mp3-sourced material for this actual seed.
12/23/2004 Diana On a side note, in the cass days we had plenty of "warbly" cassettes in our collection, a few of those even low gen. :/
12/23/2004 brewster I find it very unlikely that listening with headphones could define MP3. Comparing lossy and lossless sources - yes. The best way though is through spectrum analysis of the WAVs. I too do not beleive Scott would seed something suspicious. Judging just from listening gives too many other issues to account for - white noise, transfer issues, etc etc etc. No way I say.
12/23/2004 Charlie Miller Cool Edit Pro's frequency analysis will answer all of your questions...cm
12/23/2004 Wik MD5s do match, so I have the real seed. I have posted the SHN for D2T1 for anyone to review at this location: http://www.atomicdawn.net/shn/

Hopefully we can get more opinions or facts about this SHN source, the only SBD in circ for 9-25-81.
12/24/2004 Deadhead After listening to the file linked above (which does match the MD5 here) I concur with Wik that there is some 'digital weirdness' here, its very obvious in the high frequencies. To my ears it sounds a lot like a poor application of digital noise reduction rather than an mp3 generation.
12/24/2004 Andy L. This seed most definitely does not have an MP3 in it. My friend Jeff Harrison was able to borrow the first gen. cassette and get it put to CDR. I was the one who sent it to Scott to be futher edited. BTW, there are a lot of problems w/ the SBD feed, and Scott opted for the AUD for the second half of Set II. I have that version from Scott, as well as the complete SBD (though it is no great shakes).
12/26/2004 wik Thanks Andy, however, it's the "no great shakes" aspect of the SBD that is of concern. Either we know the lineage or we do not. It seems this one should be SBD>?>cass>CDR. Or are we sure it came from the vault tape, i.e., was the source here spun by Dick himself?
12/27/2004 Charlie Miller Even though the sbd is flawed, it would still be nice to see the whole thing circulate...cm
12/27/2004 jb I don't see what the question here is. The SBD has a known lineage: MC > C > CD. The seeder knew the guy who had a 1st gen cassette with a verifiable source and got that cassette for the transfer. There should be no further debate on this. It is a 1st gen cassette (counting the master as "generation 0"), and there is no MP3 generation. The fact that the SBD tape doesn't sound all that great is irrelevent. A lot of 20+ year old tapes of early 80s shows don't sound all that great.
12/27/2004 Andy L. Wik, let me try again: MSC>1st gen. cassette given by Dick to D.T.>copied to CDR by Jeff Harrison>sent by me to Scott Clugston. I hope this helps, and I will see that the other copy gets uploaded.